Category Archives: Healthy Leadership

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How to Finish Well as a Pastor

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Leadership failures seem to happen a lot. Whenever I read a blog about a pastor or a CEO being fired or having to step down, or whenever Katie and I learn about a couple going through a divorce, our hearts break.

I’m reminded of something as well. It is a reminder that no one is immune.

When we read about it or walk with someone, here are something Katie and I talk through, “How do we make it to the end? How do we make it not only in our marriage to ‘death do us part’ but also to the finish line of ministry? Are there things we should be doing that we aren’t doing?”

6 ways to help you finish well as a leader

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A few thoughts that Katie and I have come up with through the years as we’ve talked about our marriage and finishing well:

  1. You are not immune. None of us (even those who write scathing blogs about leaders who fail are not immune from sin or failing). All of us sin, all of us can fall. You must realize this, you must live like this. You must always keep your guard up. Satan is a being that has been around since the start of the world, he knows our weaknesses and will not rest. To win the war, you must knock down the leaders.
  2. Have accountability. This starts with your spouse, but must go farther than that. Have filters on your internet, make sure people know your passwords, put your computer in a public spot in the house. Have people who you trust and who love you ask you the hard questions.
  3. Rest. The reason most pastors fall is because they are tried and they let their guard down. Seasons of life and ministry are hard. Life gets busy and it is easy to put your marriage, your romance and sex life on the back burner. It is easy to get crispy in ministry (if you don’t know what that is, you will). Make sure you are taking your day off, getting exercise, keeping boundaries: don’t check e-mail on your day off, don’t meet with people on your day off, don’t answer the phone on your day off.
  4. Talk openly and honestly with your spouse about your season. You must be aware of the season of life you are in. Is it busy? Too busy? What do you need to do to slow down? Recently, I just took a retreat just to catch my breath, spend some extended time with God and get some sleep. Katie and I (separately) see a spiritual director, just to have someone who helps process our journeys and helps us to see what God is doing in our lives.
  5. Beware of warning signs. People don’t just happen into an affair. It doesn’t just happen one day. There are warning signs. Have you disengaged from your spouse? If you are not meeting your spouse’s needs, they will look for someone else to do it (I’m not saying this is right, just reality). Are you dating your spouse?
  6. Keep the right things first. One of the things Katie and I talked about as we’ve watched pastors close up and from afar fall is what the wife does. It is easy for wives to make their kids their first priority. It is easy for pastor’s wives to not be enamored with their husband, after all, they see him all the time, they’ve heard all his best stories and jokes a thousand times. People get enamored with pastors. Being on a stage seems sexy. They are often articulate, engaging, they are spiritual (which is a big plus to women, especially if her husband is not). Your first priority is your spouse, not your kids.

A church is part of the health of a pastor and his family and if a pastor finishes well. Here are a few things a church can do:

  1. Let them take their day off, make sure they take all of their vacation days, make sure he is dating his wife, offer to babysit their kids, pray for them.
  2. Care for the pastor’s wife, too many churches just try to take care of the pastor, but one of the greatest thing you can for a pastor is care for their spouse.

Two things a church can do to help their pastor finish well

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When this happens to a pastor, do a gut check. Ask yourself, “How would I want people to react to me if this happened to me?” That’s how we should react. And second, “Is there anything in my life that I need to repent of? Is there anything in my life that can lead me down this road that I need to get out of my life?”

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How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter

Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter by Liz Wiseman & Greg McKeown is a book every leader should read. In it, the authors compare what they call Multipliers and Diminishers. They look at how some leaders are able to get maximum effort from their teams and people and how others don’t even scratch the surface.

Multipliers make us better and smarter. They bring out our intelligence. While diminishers drain intelligence and capability out of the people around them. Their focus on their own intelligence and their resolve to be the smartest person in the room had a diminishing effect on everyone else. For them to look smart, other people had to end up looking dumb. So the question this book asks: How do some leaders create intelligence around them, while others diminish it?

Simple ways to make everyone around you smarter and better.

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According to the authors, there are 5 things that set Multipliers apart from other leaders:

  1. They attract talent.
  2. They liberate their teams to reach their potential and beyond.
  3. They challenge their teams.
  4. The create healthy debate in their teams and meetings.
  5. They invest in their team members.

Here are some specific things I learned about becoming a Multiplier from my reading:

  • The biggest leadership challenge of our times is not insufficient resources per se, but rather our inability to access the most valuable resources at our disposal.
  • Leaders rooted in the logic of multiplication believe: 1. Most people in organizations are underutilized. 2. All capability can be leveraged with the right kind of leadership. 3. Therefore, intelligence and capability can be multiplied without requiring a bigger investment.
  • Multipliers don’t necessarily get more with less. They get more by using more—more of people’s intelligence and capability. Diminishers appear to believe that really intelligent people are a rare breed and I am one of the few really smart people. They then conclude, other people will never figure things out without me.
  • Multipliers lead people by operating as Talent Magnets, whereby they attract and deploy talent to its fullest regardless of who owns the resource. People flock to work with them directly or otherwise because they know they will grow and be successful.
  • Multipliers establish a unique and highly motivating work environment where everyone has permission to think and the space to do their best work.
  • Multipliers operate as Challengers by seeding opportunities, laying down a challenge that stretches an organization, and generating belief that it can be done. In this way, they challenge themselves and others to push beyond what they know.
  • Multipliers make decisions in a way that readies the organization to execute those decisions. They operate as Debate Makers, driving sound decisions through rigorous debate. They engage people in debating the issues up front, which leads to decisions that people understand and can execute efficiently.
  • Multipliers deliver and sustain superior results by inculcating high expectations across the organization. By serving as Investors, Multipliers provide necessary resources for success. In addition, they hold people accountable for their commitments. Over time, Multipliers’ high expectations turn into an unrelenting presence, driving people to hold themselves and each other accountable, often to higher standards and without the direct intervention of the Multiplier.
  • Talent Magnets are attracters and growers of talent and intelligence. Leaders who serve as Multipliers provide both the space and the resources to yield this growth. But Talent Magnets go beyond just giving people resources. They remove the impediments, which quite often means removing the people who are blocking and impeding the growth of others.
  • Talent Magnets remove the barriers that block the growth of intelligence in their people.
  • Diminishers are owners of talent, not developers of talent.
  • How smart you are is defined by how clearly you can see the intellect of others.
  • Multipliers understand that people grow through challenge.
  • Multipliers invest in the success of others.
  • When leaders fail to return ownership, they create dependent organizations.
  • The Diminisher operates from a very different assumption: People will never be able to figure it out without me.
  • When you delegate, you probably let people know what you are expecting of them. But take this to the next level and let people know that they (not you) are in charge and accountable.
  • When we protect people from experiencing the natural ramifications of their actions, we stunt their learning.
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Answering Questions No one is Asking

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One thing churches and pastors seem to do very well is answer questions no one is asking. 

Pastors spend years in a sermon series that was 60 weeks too long. All in an effort to be deeper or more gospel centered, we show off our theological fortitude and drown our churches in information that doesn’t lead to transformation.

We teach evangelism classes and tell people to read apologetics books on important theological issues: deity of Christ, the resurrection of Jesus and the end of the world, yet most people outside the church aren’t asking those questions. They want to know how to talk to their spouse, how to raise their kids, get out of debt, let go of a past hurt, not whether the left behind series is correct.

Companies do this too. Recently as Apple got beat up by Samsung for essentially copying their phone 2 years later, but Samsung misses why people buy an iPhone. Someone who loves Apple doesn’t care of Samsung made that phone 2 years ago, if they did, they would already have a Samsung phone.

I recently went into sports store to buy workout chalk since I ran out. I wanted to get a block of it and put it in a bucket so it wouldn’t make a mess on the floor of my garage when I used it. The store I went into, I asked if they had chalk and they guy beamed and said, “Yes, right here. You can shake it on your hands instead of having a block.” This was exactly what I wanted to avoid, but he didn’t ask so I went to a different store and he missed a sale.

Churches and pastors fail when they answer questions no one is asking.

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So as a church or a pastor, how do you answer questions people are actually asking? Here are a few ideas:

  1. Ask questions. Ask people you are trying to reach questions to learn from them. Ask them what is hard or difficult. Listen to them when they talk about their jobs and their lives. Many pastors are not good listeners in social situations.
  2. Spend time with unchurched people. Many Christians are isolated from unchurched people and let’s face it, pastors are often terrible friends. Spend time in their house, have them into your house and be around them. You will be amazed at what you will pick up by simply being in the same room as someone who doesn’t follow Jesus.
  3. Read blogs, magazines and watch movies for the purpose of learning. Many people and leaders simply ingest culture and media without thinking, yet blogs, movies, shows, what people say on shows gives us a great window into what our culture thinks and the questions and reservations they have around the gospel. Often when I watch a debate show, I ask what I would say to the person about that issue, a person who maybe has no reverence for the Bible.

Bottom line, if you want to be relevant and help people begin a relationship with Jesus, we must start with where they are and answer the questions they are asking, not the ones we think they are asking.

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Being a Pastor’s Wife: Spiritual Warfare in the Home

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Pastor's wife

Many churches (and pastors for that matter) do not know what to do with pastor’s wives, how to treat them, what role they play or how important they are. It is a hard role to live in and stay in. Everyone has a lot of their own expectations of what the wife of a pastor should be like, yet, they are all different.

While Revolution (and myself) has struggled just like every other church to figure this out, I believe Katie and I have figured some things out that we have put into place which will prove to be invaluable in the future. While this is not exclusive to pastors, any leader in a church and for that matter, any husband can do better in understanding their wives and how to engage them.

Over the next month, I’ll be sharing some of the things we’ve learned that I hope will be beneficial for you.

If you missed them, you can read Pastor Your Wife as Much as You Pastor Your Church, Without Her, You Fall Apart and What Role a Pastors Wife Plays in the Church.

Spiritual warfare always gets mixed reactions when you bring it up. In the church I grew up in, spiritual warfare was something we believed in, but didn’t believe actually happened. We had angels in the Christmas pageant. The pastor preached on the unseen world of angels and demons, but no one actually believe it happened. I have a friend who sees spiritual warfare everywhere. There are angels and demons behind every door waiting to pounce on you. If you get sick, that is Satan.

While I am no expert on spiritual warfare, and admittedly, I’m scared to become an expert on it because I don’t want to have to use my knowledge. But since starting Revolution, I have begun to see spiritual warfare differently than I used to. I believe that both Satan and God are active in our world. I believe they move around, can take up resident in our lives, homes, work places and churches (if you don’t believe that last one, just go to a congregational business meeting).

I also believe, from my own experience, that spiritual warfare comes into your home and family. If there is a night of the week that Katie and I are going to have a fight, it is going to be Saturday night. If there is a night that our kids will decide not to sleep, it is going to be Saturday night. Now, that isn’t necessarily Satan working in our home, but our own sin nature can very easily give him a foothold into our lives.

A pastor’s wife is most likely to feel the brunt of this. I remember a pastor once saying that he sees Satan going to Eve first was a testament of how important the role of women are because Satan will go to them first. It is the same for a pastor’s wife. For this reason, while both spouses must be called to full-time ministry (if they aren’t, he shouldn’t be a pastor, but that is a post for another day), he is doing most of the work, seeing the excitement, the life change, hearing the stories. She (in our case anyway) is at home with 3 kids, changing diapers, trying to get kids to eat, take naps, not kill each other and for her to not kill them.

A pastor’s wife often feels the brunt of spiritual warfare for the pastor’s family.

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It is easy for Satan to whisper into her ear, “This isn’t worth it.” She has to fight feelings of missing out on something, on a “normal” life, of not being appreciated by her kids, husband or her husband not being appreciated for all that he does. It is easy for her to rationalize why this is not worth their lives.

If you don’t believe me, ask a pastor’s wife. You must be aware of this as a pastor and put some things in place to fight against it. As a couple and as a family, we pray for protection over our marriage, our kids and our house. We pray for the same protection for the other elders and staff at Revolution on a daily basis. We have people praying for us.

Being married to a pastor is simply inviting spiritual warfare into your life.

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We have friends who check in with us on Saturday and Sunday night to ask how we are doing and to let us know they are praying for us. I have friends who live on the east coast who pray for us when they wake up and we are still asleep on the west coast.

Pastor’s, ask your wife how she is doing. Does she feel vulnerable? Does she need to be encouraged? Be her first line of defense. Churches, lift up your leaders on a regular basis, but especially on the weekend as they prepare for what lies ahead. I had a mentor tell me that preaching was like “reaching down onto the road into hell and pulling people back.”

So yes, Satan has a lot to say about that.

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Being a Pastor’s Wife: What Role a Pastor’s Wife Plays in the Church

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Many churches (and pastors for that matter) do not know what to do with pastor’s wives, how to treat them, what role they play or how important they are. It is a hard role to live in and stay in. Everyone has a lot of their own expectations of what the wife of a pastor should be like, yet, they are all different.

While Revolution (and myself) has struggled just like every other church to figure this out, I believe Katie and I have figured some things out that we have put into place which will prove to be invaluable in the future. While this is not exclusive to pastors, any leader in a church and for that matter, any husband can do better in understanding their wives and how to engage them.

Over the next month, I’ll be sharing some of the things we’ve learned that I hope will be beneficial for you.

If you missed them, you can read Pastor Your Wife as Much as You Pastor Your Church and Without Her, You Fall Apart.

The other thing that too many churches do with pastor’s wives is not being sure what to do with them or how they should serve or be involved. Many churches see them as free labor. He’s here, she came with him, why not put her to work, for free. She leads the music, plays the piano, leads the kids ministry and the women’s ministry. Why? Why not.

What makes being a pastor’s wife difficult is that nowhere in scripture is there a job description. The only job description people know of for a pastors’ wife is what they saw their last pastor’s wife do. If she did it, they assume every pastor’s wife does that. The problem is that every pastor’s wife is not musical, many of them do not have upfront personalities, or have a teaching gift or have a passion for children or a women’s ministry.

One reason it is so hard to be a pastor’s wife.

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A pastor’s wife needs to be treated like the rest of the women in the church. She needs to be encouraged to find her spiritual gift and use them. Whatever that may be. And, like every other woman in the church, her first responsibility it to care for her husband and children. That is her first ministry according to Titus 2. This is something churches can get better at as well. We need to encourage and hold up the important role women play when it comes to their role as a wife and a mom. Yes, women are not just that, but we have lowered those roles so much in our culture that it is seen as a step down if that is your role. By fulfilling this role, a woman is making the biggest impact on the world because of the impact she is making on her family (particularly, her kids).

Sorry, that was a tangent.

Once, I had a conversation with a woman at Revolution and she told me all the things her pastor’s wife had done. She had recently moved to Tucson. Her problem was that Katie didn’t do these things. What she failed to recognize was that Katie was 28 and her previous pastor’s wife was 44, with only a high school senior still at home. Katie had 3 kids under 4 at home.

While, this does not give a pastor’s wife an excuse to be lazy and say, “I have 2 young kids at home so I can’t volunteer anywhere in the church.” If someone else said that in a church, we would give pushback because we are all called to serve somewhere in some capacity in the body of Christ. She does need to be selective with her time.

Every family finds themselves in different seasons. Some are busier than others. A pastor’s wife needs to be aware of the season she is in, the season her family is in and the church needs to be okay with that and respect that. As they do with the other women in the church.

Pastors, does your church see your wife as free labor, or do they treat her like other women in the church and encourage her to find a spot to serve? You need to not treat her as an employee, she is a member of your church, just like everybody else who is a member. Have you helped her discover her gifts and what she is passionate about? In case you haven’t figured it out, this might change as she grows older, which makes it fun. You get to discover something new with her, and then discover something else with her as her season in life changes.

Churches, do you treat your pastors wife with respect, but also like other women in the church? She is going through the same things all the women in the church are going through, she just gets to go through it in a more public way.

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Why I Love Preaching in the Old Testament

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Hebrew Bible Textl - Jewish Related Item

I just wrapped up a five week series on the book of Habakkuk called Waiting on God. While I love every series we do at Revolution, I love preaching through books of the Old Testament. I know each communicator is different and there are guys who would preach on the gospels every week if they could (and some do).

So far in 6 years we’ve preached through the Song of Solomon, Jonah, the life of Elijah and Samson, Nehemiah, Joshua, Ecclesiastes and now Habakkuk. We’re thinking of doing Malachi and Ruth next year as well.

Why do I love preaching through the Old Testament books? Here are a few reasons why I love them and why you should consider preaching through them more often:

  1. Your people don’t know them as well. While most people don’t know the Bible very well, most really don’t know the Old Testament. They might think they know the stories of Noah, Moses, Joseph and David, but there is so much in them they don’t know. Most people at my church had never read through Habakkuk when we preached through it. This creates a sense of anticipation and excitement to hear something they have not heard before.
  2. They are filled with great stories. Let’s be honest, the stories of the Old Testament are crazy. Have you read through Judges? This engages people and helps them visualize the bible. It is also a great way to say, “If someone was making up the Bible, this probably wouldn’t get included.” They are filled with people making wrong choices all over the place and God still being gracious.
  3. We see the character of God. Many people say they like the Jesus of the New Testament and not the God of the Old Testament. Honestly, I can see why and relate. Yet, every time I dive into the Old Testament, while I sometimes scratch my head at what seems like a vengeful and wrathful God. I am equally blown away by how patient and gracious He is. He continues to give chance after chance. The Old Testament truly shows how long suffering He is. So, while people need to hear that God hates sin, has wrath and anger towards sin, He also has enormous amounts of grace for sinners who repent.
  4. We need the Old Testament so the New Testament is such good news. Without the Old Testament, the beauty of the New Testament would be dimmed. By the time you get to Malachi, the fact that God still sends a redeemer is mind blowing to me. Honestly, if you read the Old Testament, you should be astounded that God doesn’t repeat the story of Noah. When Jesus comes, the silence is deafening and then…a Redeemer. One to right all the wrongs of the world, to usher in redemption and justice, once and for all.
4 reasons you should preach more from the Old Testament.

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While pastors need to balance the Old and New Testament, which we do very well I think. More pastors need to dust off some of the books in the Old Testament for their churches.

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Waiting on God: Jason & Sarah

To go with our Waiting on God series we asked someone to make some video stories of people in our church who have waited on God, are waiting on God or are in the midst of a hard season of life.

Below is the story of Jason and Sarah Wood sharing their journey and struggle through pregnancy, a miscarriage and adopting two girls from the Congo, that they are still waiting to bring home.

Waiting on God: Jason & Sarah from Tucson Revolution on Vimeo.

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3 Reasons You Won’t Slow Down

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Psalm 46:10 is an often quoted verse. It says, Be still and know that I am God. It’s on coffee mugs, posters, greeting cards. It is an invitation to experience God, to rest, slow down.

It is also an invitation that I and many others reject on a daily basis.

Our rejection of this invitation is interesting because of how tired most Americans are, how worn out we are, how run down we are from living life. You would think, the invitation from God for us to be still and know that He is God would be a welcome invitation.

But we reject it.

First off, to be still and know that He is God means I need to admit that I am not God. I have to admit there are things outside of my control. Things I can’t do. Things I can’t handle. There are people and situations I cannot control. This is not a facade many of us are willing to give up any time soon. We know we aren’t in control, but we are content to live with the idea that we might be.

Second, for me to be still means I am going to have to stop. Which means, slowing down, stopping things, resting. The reason most Americans don’t Sabbath and rest isn’t because we don’t know how to or aren’t very good at it. We don’t rest and slow down because we don’t want to. As long as we are busy, we don’t have to think about what is broken in our lives. We don’t have to think about that situation from 10 years ago we are trying to forget that we have never dealt with. Being still often means facing our sin. Being still gives God the opportunity to speak to us. As long as we are moving, we are able to drown Him out and not think about those broken places in our lives.

Third, is the crucial word know. Most of the time, when we talk about faith in God or a lack of faith, it all has to do with our feelings. We talk about not feeling in love as a reason for divorce. We don’t feel God’s love, so it must not be real is a comment I’ve heard countless times. But, Psalm 46 tells us to know that He is God. Not feel. Feelings are fleeting and easy to dismiss. Knowing means I must slow down to ask, “What do I know about God? Looking at the world around me, what does that say about God? How have I seen God be faithful to redeem other things in my life, why not this thing I won’t give up?”

Rest is an acknowledgement that God is God while you stop.

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We don’t slow down, not because we can’t or don’t have time. We don’t stop because deep down, we want to be God. We don’t want God to speak to us about those broken places in our lives, we’d like to keep being the victim in that situation instead of facing it and having him redeem it.

But the invitation still stands, by accepting it, we find rest. We find life. We find a place where we can let go of worries, hurt, frustrations and be with God. Exactly what we need.

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Waiting on God: Mike & Alice

To go with our Waiting on God series we asked someone to make some video stories of people in our church who have waited on God, are waiting on God or are in the midst of a hard season of life.

Below is the story of Mike and Alice; the journey of their marriage and Alice starting to follow Jesus before Mike and how that affected their marriage.

Waiting on God: Mike & Alice Rodriguez Story from Tucson Revolution on Vimeo.

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Leadership Lessons from Dave Ramsey

 

Recently, I read through Dave Ramsey’s leadership book EntreLeadership: 20 Years of Practical Business Wisdom from the Trenches. The title is right. There is tons of wisdom in this book and it is incredibly practical and helpful.

Here are 11 things I learned or was reminded of that I think are helpful for other pastors:

  1. The very things you want from a leader are the very things the people you are leading expect from you. Credibility, empathy, integrity, passion, vision. We want these things from leaders and our followers want them from us. The standard we hold people to, is the standard others hold us to. Step up to it.
  2. You cannot lead without passion. Passion causes things to move, and passion creates a force multiplier. The longer I lead Revolution, the more I am reminded of this. The times when we lacked momentum or energy, I lacked momentum and energy. This doesn’t mean a leader needs to be a loud cheerleader or an extrovert or can’t be tired sometimes. It does mean that you need to take care of yourself so that you are excited and energized. For a pastor, you need to make your schedule work so that on Sunday morning your game face is on and you are ready. This may mean you do very little on Saturday’s, but whatever you have to do, do it.
  3. The mission statement is one way we create culture. If you can’t give a clear win for your church, close your doors. You should be able to give a clear win for everything you do, this is what motivates people and pushes them to give their time, talent and treasure to something.
  4. Just because an idea is a good idea does not mean it is good for you or your company to take it on. Keep your eye on the ball. Pastors are notorious for not following this. Churches get complex, a powerful elders wife has an idea so you feel pressured to do it, the loudest person won’t stop complaining about why you don’t have a certain ministry. Someone says, “If we do ___, we will be able to reach people” and so the ideas seems sound. We can reach people? Then we should do it. The problem is, all kinds of things reach people, that doesn’t mean every church should do them all. TV ministries work at reaching people. Should every church have one? No. Focus on what you can do well and do that. The reason this is hard is because by staying simple and focused, you will lose people, but you will be more effective and healthier as a church in the end.
  5. If you spend fifteen minutes planning your day on paper every morning, you will add 20 percent to your productivity. I’ve come across this idea in a number of books recently and have put it into practice and seen a ton of results from this. By clarifying my wins for the day, I know where to spend my energy and time. I also know at the end of a day that maybe has little to show for it, that I accomplished what I set out to accomplish. This helps to put wind in your sails for the next day.
  6. The larger your dream, the larger the organization, the more complicated and emotionally draining your decisions. Leaders with small dreams don’t lay awake at night worrying and praying about their church. The ones who have things they feel called to, things that overwhelm them, they sweat the decisions they make. Hiring is now not just about filling a role, but can make or break a ministry for years. Where you meet, when you make a change, all of these decisions carry more weight.
  7. You put all you dream about in jeopardy when you are indecisive. Because of the season of growth and hiring that Revolution is in, this statement stopped me when I read it. While you should not rush things, you should take time when you can to make a choice and look at as many possibilities and angles as you can, at some point, you must decide. If you as a pastor are paralyzed about something, your church stops. That can’t happen. You can’t second guess something, you must decide and move forward.
  8. If you don’t have any good options then you don’t have enough options; search for more. If you are like me, it is easy to focus on one thing and just do it without finding good options. I realize others are in the other end of the spectrum of finding too many options and then aren’t sure how to move forward. I’ve always felt like I need to make a choice, when in reality, I could wait and find better options and that is a choice.
  9. Team members leave, or are let go, most often because they should never have been hired in the first place. Every pastor knows this is true. They have volunteers that shouldn’t have been given leadership roles, staff members that they want to fire or are firing that they should never have hired.
  10. Hire people you like; you will be trusting them and spending lots of time with them. I’ve made this mistake in the past and it hurt me. I overlooked something, whether in ability or simply personalities clashing and it hurt my team every time. Now, I spend lots of time with people before I hire them. I went to see someone in another state once just to get a feel for them before bringing them to Revolution.
  11. People whose first question is about pay are not people you want. I had a mentor in college tell me this, so I never brought money up in an interview. Now that I’m interviewing people, it tells me a lot about someone. While pay matters, buy in to a vision matters more. Sometimes people will sacrifice pay to be a part of something great. This doesn’t mean you pay people pennies, but it means the DNA and vision lining up is more important.
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