This week, my church hosted a deeper dive into the topic of racism. I was so proud of my church. To engage in such a difficult, and deeply felt topic, and to do it with grace. From those on stage to the chat hosts, our whole team handled everything with such grace and courage. I know we took some hits for it and that we have received some nasty emails, but the overall response was one of incredible thankfulness.

The deeper dives are one of my favorite experiments we’ve tried in this covid world. The conversation last night was incredibly helpful, courageous, gracious, and uncomfortable. As a dad of a black son, I’ve learned a lot over the years as I try to prepare Judah to be a black man in America, which is different than being a white man in America because whether we want to admit it, white privilege is real.

I have a long way to go in that understanding and education, but I’m trying. I thought I would take a moment and share a few reflections, what I learned in moderating the conversation and how we can engage together:

1. Decide this conversation is worth engaging in. I am proud of my church for deciding to have this conversation. This isn’t the only time we’ve talked about this at my church or even the last time. But I am thankful that we have it. I know that we lost some people because of it,, but I also know that we gained and impacted some people. And no, that isn’t a reason to do it, but it is a reality of leadership.

I think many of us, either because of ignorance, fear (which we’ll talk about), or simply because other things are happening in front of us, we don’t engage in this conversation. We don’t learn; we don’t listen, we don’t step into it. As leaders, we must. We can’t sit on the sideline and do nothing or say nothing.

But this is a conversation; it takes two people and conversations happen both ways. When it comes to race, we must engage together, listening, and learning. Asking questions, being willing to stumble over words, asking what seems like a dumb question, extending grace when someone says something they shouldn’t, or struggles to see if from your perspective.

Too often, we assume we know what the other person thinks. There were several things that Pastor Grady said last night and thought, “I’ve never heard that before.” Or, “I never thought about it from that angle.”

Too often, and I’ll speak just for me, I can think I know all that there is to know. Or I can assume that because I read one book or a blog post, that I know what everyone experiences. I can easily assume that because I experienced something or haven’t experienced something, that everyone has my worldview.

2. Talking about racism is uncomfortable. The reality is, this is an uncomfortable conversation. It is uncomfortable because many of us don’t know what to say; we don’t know where to start; we struggle to understand our own story and the story of others. We struggle to see their perspective and understand what it is like to be ____ in America.

I am consistently humbled by the grace extended to me by my African American friends and pastors in Tucson. They graciously keep coming to the table to talk, to listen, to press in.

So, as a white person, it is difficult and uncomfortable. But I remember hearing a black pastor say, “If you think it’s uncomfortable talking about racism, imagine experiencing it.”

I have grown to discover that I have very little idea of the pain that African Americans feel and carry because of racism. Talking about racism, what lies in my heart is hard to do because it means I must confront sin in me and in the systems that live in our culture.

And yes, systemic racism and white privilege exist. They are not made up or imagined things, but part of the conversation we must have and things we must confront.

3. It really is possible to have a conversation about racism. This deeper dive happened because almost 10 years ago, two pastors: a white and a black one, decided to have a conversation and build a friendship. They talked about their differences and learned they had more in common, but they also learned together.

Humility.

That is one of the keys to any learning and conversation, but especially one on race.

Humility to face the things you’ve done and face the things people have done in the past.

Yes, there is a good chance you will ask a question that you will feel dumb when you ask it. You might say something offensive or hurt someone’s feelings, but apologize to them quickly and make it right. Repent and ask for help. That is humility.

The friendship between Glen and Grady is a great reminder for people my age and younger: we stand on the shoulders of the men and women who have come before us, the leaders who have blazed the trails we walk on. If you walk in a smooth path, someone cleared that for you. If you encounter a path that is not clear, clear that path for the next generation.

4. There are a lot of scared people in our country. Every day on social media, there are stories upon stories of the fears that our African American brothers and sisters carry. Fears of walking out the door, being pulled over, shot in the back. Those fears are real, and they cannot be brushed aside.

There is a fear of how fast things are changing and honestly, the changes that I think bring about fear in many white people is the loss of the world they’ve known. The majority culture is being confronted and that isn’t a bad thing. We must learn what is in our history, what has been done and “what we have always known.”

When my kids play with other kids, I watch the eyes of the other dad’s. They are on Judah, not my other boys. I don’t think they do that on purpose, but they are watching him play with their kids, especially if they have a daughter. What makes them afraid of him? My soft-spoken black son. Someone, somewhere, taught them to be afraid. I heard it growing up and that is the places of our stories and histories we need to repent of and face.

5. Educate yourself. Change starts with you, with one person.

One thing I was reminded of last night is that people really do want to learn and engage. Yes, there are people on all sides of an issue that have no desire to listen, no desire to learn, and just want to shut it down. But most people aren’t like that. At our deeper dive, people asked questions, raised issues, but I imagine they leaned in and listened. I’ve heard from so many people who have said thanks, thank you for pressing in on this and pushing us. Right now, my wife is taking our kids through a book about things I never learned in history and it is uncomfortable but we need to know those things.

If you go to our deeper dive page, there is a list of resources to help you move forward in this conversation.

I loved what Grady said, change in our culture will come from the church, not the government. We cannot sit on the sidelines. I want to be a part of that, and I’m trying to learn how to do that.