7 Things a Pastor Must Do on Easter

Photo by Kelly Sikkema on Unsplash

Sunday is the “super bowl” of the church year. I wish we didn’t call it that, but that’s another post.

We love Easter. It is the hope of our salvation and our world. In most churches, attendance will be higher than at any other time of the year. More unchurched people will be there more than any other week.

Here are 7 things a pastor MUST do on Easter:

Fill yourself up (before and after). You will likely be tired by the time you get to Easter morning. You will be tired on the Monday after Easter. The week of Easter is filled with special services and attention to different things. Make sure you take time leading up to Easter to eat well, get some sleep, keep your exercise going, and fill your heart up. Don’t preach on an empty tank.

After Easter, make sure you fill yourself up as well. Get up and exercise on Monday morning, read your bible, and listen to worship music. Be with Jesus.

Be a pastor. Every week, I have no idea what people are carrying when they walk through the doors of our church or tune in online. Many people drag themselves to church on Easter, barely hanging on in some areas of their life. Be a pastor. Pray with people, smile at them, listen to them, walk around, and talk to people. Don’t hang out in the green room or backstage. Be a pastor.

Talk about the resurrection. You will be tempted to be cute and talk about something else for fear everyone knows about the resurrection.

Don’t.

The resurrection is our only hope. Without it, Jesus is still in the grave, and our faith is in vain (1 Corinthians 15:14). Without the hope of the resurrection, sin, and death can defeat us. The world will not be made right without the resurrection. Marriages cannot be saved, addictions cannot be defeated, and identities cannot be changed.

Challenge them. Don’t be afraid. Step up to the plate and tell them, “Today is the day.” For some, they need to be challenged to come back. For others, they need to be challenged to follow Jesus.

Remind them. While some will need to be challenged, some will need to be reminded that God loves and cares for them, that God has not forgotten them, that God has not left them, or that God is not disappointed in them.

Invite them back. I’m amazed at how many church services I’ve been to, and no one invited me back next week. Tell them, “I look forward to seeing you back next week.” Be friendly, walk around, and say hi to people. Lead the way in how your church should be welcoming.

Put as much effort into next week as you did this week. Easter was great, and you will be tired, but people will return to your church the following Sunday. Put as much effort into that. Hopefully, you started a new series on Easter that they want to hear part 2 of. Be ready.

Values & Culture Drive Your Church

brown wooden letter t-embossed decor

Pastors and church leaders spend a lot of time talking about strategy, mission, vision, and those things that matter. Yet, they are catalyzing forces for your church and what God has called you to.

However, it won’t matter if your culture and values do not support your strategy, mission, and vision. The words on the wall will be meaningless.

Peter Drucker famously said, “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.” And he’s right.

Culture is a squishy thing. Simply put, culture is how things “get done” without telling anyone. It is the knowledge that this is who we are without being told.

Every church has a culture. It is how worship is done, what is expected of preaching, what can or can’t be changed, what the church would say is the most important thing.

I remember working at a church and going through orientation and learning all the church policies, communication, working with the social media team, getting things done, etc. After the meeting, my assistant pulled me aside and said, “Now, let me tell you how things get done.” That’s culture.

Culture is influential, and often in churches, no one knows how the culture started or why things are the way they are. One of the things I encourage leaders to do when they walk into a new job is to ask why and how questions constantly. Why did this get started? Why do we do this? How did this start? One of my favorite questions is to ask, “What was the problem or issue that led to a meeting that resulted in this decision or way of doing things?” It gets at the why and the beginning, and then, you can ask, “Is that still an issue or a problem?”

I heard of one church that started something because of problems in the parking lot, but when those problems no longer existed, they wouldn’t make changes to their ministry because “we’ve always done it that way.” That’s culture.

What’s important to know is that culture isn’t bad. But it does determine things. And make no mistake, every church and family has a culture.

In his excellent book Look Before You Lead: How to Discern & Shape Your Church Culture, Aubrey Malphurs lists nine reasons values and culture matter to your church:

  1. They determine ministry distinctives.
  2. They dictate personal involvement.
  3. They communicate what is important.
  4. They guide change.
  5. They influence overall behavior.
  6. They inspire people to action.
  7. They enhance credible leadership.
  8. They shape ministry character.
  9. They contribute to ministry success.

Here’s my encouragement for you. Look at this list and ask some questions:

  • Is our culture clear?
  • Are our values clear?
  • Do we like our values and culture?
  • Of the nine things listed above, would clarifying our values and culture help with any of those?

As we are starting a new year, figuring out what church in this polarized, covid world looks like, this is a perfect time to clarify who you are as a church and what matters most to you.

Why Every Pastor Needs to Think Like a Church Planter (And How to do It)

Covid did many things in our world and our churches and organizations. All crises do this: they accelerate things and show what was hidden beneath our success. As churches move forward, I think one thing is true: All pastors must think like church planters. 

You might wonder, why? Do they really? What if they aren’t church planters?

First, the why.

The reality is, everyone is a church planter right now.

Most pastors I talk to are seeing 40-50% of their church come back. Most pastors and churches aren’t sure who is a part of their church anymore. There is a constant wonder of where that person is or what happened to that family. As a church planter, you constantly think about who is coming back, who is a part of our church.

Not meeting for several months to a year in some places in many ways wiped the slate clean for churches. It took away a lot of security, a lot of programs of things you used to do, or “the way things have always been around here.”

And the last reason pastors need to think like church planters is in how church planters think. They are dreamers; they try things others won’t try because they are simply trying to survive. But, they are passionate and want to reach people. Now, I’m not saying pastors aren’t like that, but many aren’t. And this isn’t about personality type. I’ve heard many pastors push back on this idea, but that doesn’t mean a pastor can’t think this way.

Here’s how to think like a church planter:

Dream. When was the last time you dreamed about the future, the hopes and plans God has placed on your heart? Take some time to get alone and dream. Here are some questions to work through in that time. So many church planters start a church because they have a dream, see a church, and see a future. This is born in them over many years, and their passion grows and grows.

What do you hope and pray God will do in your church, in you, in your people over the next several years? What are you asking God for? What impact are you hoping to make? This isn’t necessarily about crowds and growth, but impact.

Clarity. What churches and teams need is clarity. So many churches and staffs are tired, demoralized, and exhausted right now. They have spent the last year feeling like they aren’t moving forward, that they aren’t doing anything. So many staffs have no idea what is important anymore. Most pastors lie down each night wondering what is working, who is a part of their church and struggling.

This is why clarity matters so much. Your staff needs to know what matters right now. It doesn’t mean that is the most important thing for your church, just what is most important right now. Something has to win; something is more important than something else. So I told our team: right now, the most important thing is rebuilding through Sunday morning. This means re-engaging people, rebuilding teams, and helping new people and those coming back get connected to God and each other. This doesn’t mean we aren’t doing other things, but it gives us a list of priorities.

So, for the next 3 months, what is the most important thing? The next 6 months?

Don’t go further than that. Most church planters aren’t. They live in monthly cycles. This isn’t the greatest long-term plan, but you are rebuilding. You are restarting.

Look around on a Sunday. Look at your teams and what you do. What isn’t clear? What is confusing? This is the time to get clear on why you do what you do.

Patrick Lencioni describes the job of a leader this way, “Create clarity, communicate clarity, over-communicate clarity.” So if there is one thing pastors need to do right now, it is to create and communicate clarity.

Simplify. One of the things true of many churches is they begin things but never end things. And this makes sense because people are committed to something, someone started something. But over time, things become complex. Slowly, people can’t remember why something started or if it is even doing what it intended to do when it started.

This is an opportunity to simplify.

Church plants are often very simple, many of them meet in rented facilities or don’t have the staff, so they can only do so much.

This is a chance to ask of every program and ministry:

  • Why did we start this?
  • Does it still do that?
  • Do we still need it?
  • Do we need to tweak anything to make it more effective?

Start over. I just started at a new church. There are a lot of advantages to starting new, to starting over. A church planter is starting over, starting new. They can do all the things they were never able to do at their last church, all the dreams and ideas they’ve had to put on a shelf, they can take off. The same happens in a move; you take all you’ve ever learned and apply it.

What if you did that without moving?

I remember reading something Andy Grove said years ago, “If the board replaced us (the leadership team at Intel), and they brought in someone new to lead this. What would they do? Why don’t we do that?”

What a great question!

If someone new came in, what would they see? What would they stop? What would they start? Here is a list of questions I asked myself and influencers at my new church when I moved. I’d encourage you to ask yourself, your team, and influencers those same questions now. There is so much gold waiting for you if you will dig a little bit.

Leading right now is not easy, but leading was never supposed to be easy. This is an opportunity, a chance to reimagine what can happen and how God can use your church to reach your community and beyond.

Pause, dream, listen and move forward.

I’m praying for you.

Mission vs. “The Way we Do Things”

In his great book Canoeing the Mountains: Christian Leadership in Uncharted Territory, Tod Bolsinger quotes James Osterhaus on the principle of Red Zone-Blue Zone decision making. 

The red zone is making decisions that are “all about me.” The blue zone is making decisions that are “all about the mission.”

One thing I see creep into churches when it comes to decisions, though, is that the mission slowly becomes the same as “the way we do things.” The line between the mission and the model slowly becomes the same line. When that happens, a church easily moves into the red zone because they make decisions to keep themselves comfortable, not make changes, or to keep power. 

The question leaders and churches need to ask themselves, according to Bolsinger, are, “Does this further our mission? Because a healthy system makes decisions that further the mission.”

Asking what furthers the mission and what furthers the way we do things are not the same question. Or, asking what furthers the mission versus what furthers the ______ (insert church name) way, are not the same question. 

Too often, churches and pastors confuse the mission and the way they do things. 

How does this happen?

Here are a few ways this creeps in:

Not having a clear mission. The first way this shows up is in not having a clear mission. If you don’t have a clear mission, this is why our church exists and what we are put on this earth to do, then it is easy to drift from that because there isn’t a right answer. 

Many churches are in this spot.

They lack clarity of mission, where they are headed, or even clarity of their strategy. And for many leaders and churches, it is easier to articulate “how” you do something instead of “why” you do something. As a result, pastors can often talk all day about how they do ministry, how they do a program but struggle to articulate why they started it, why it must keep going, why it must be this way instead of that way.  

When that happens, the way you do church becomes the mission, and you make decisions to keep your job, to stay comfortable, and to not go through the pain of change. 

Not having a clear model. Many pastors and leaders have not done the hard work of saying, “This is how we make disciples; this is how we do worship services; this is how we follow up with people.” It is far easier, they think, to bounce from one idea to another without actually asking, “How has God uniquely wired us and called us as a church for this time and place?”

God did not place you in your church or in your city to be exactly like North Point, Elevation, Saddleback, or _____. He placed you there, to be you. So, yes, learn from others, steal great ideas and implement them, but do the hard work and ask about contextualization and what makes sense for your church and your area. 

Falling in love with your model more than your mission. Leaders who do the hard work will find that their mission and model come out of their passion and story. This is one of the reasons it becomes blurry. And this is often why we fall in love with our model so easily. We created it, and it is who we are; it is what we like, what would reach us or does reach us. 

But you must stay flexible on your model (the how) and stay clear on the mission (the why). 

As Andy Stanley says, “Date the model, but marry the mission.”

Continue to ask yourself questions like:

  • What is working?
  • What is not working?
  • What isn’t clear?
  • What did we start 5, 10, 20 years ago that doesn’t make sense anymore?

Jesus continued to come back to the kingdom of God. That was what he talked about. That was his mission. Yet, he disappointed people, met people in different ways and through different means throughout his ministry. Paul did the same thing throughout the book of Acts. 

The mission was the same. However, the model and values shifted. 

The Most Important Minutes to a Guest at Church

Guests at a church are a big deal; they matter a lot. They are gifts from God that need to be cared for and stewarded well. Notice, I didn’t call them a visitor. Visitors are people who come and go. We don’t really like visitors to come to our house, but we love guests. So we pull out the red carpet for a guest.

To this end, are there moments that matter to a guest more than other moments in a worship service or event at a church? I think there are. There are two moments you need to pay attention to:

  • The first seven minutes they are on the church campus.
  • In the last 10 minutes they are on the church campus.

I’m not saying these are the most important moments of a church, a service, or what we think matters most. But, they are the minutes that matter the most to an unchurched guest.

In the first 7 minutes, a guest is deciding if they will come back. How easy was parking to find? How hard was it to find their child’s classroom and get them checked in? How secure was the kid’s ministry? Were the bathrooms easy to find? What about coffee and refreshments? Did someone wave and smile at them? If they are online, did someone say hi to them and tell them they were “seen?”

All of these things happen before a guest sits down or the service starts. 

In the last 10 minutes, they are asking about their fit in a church. Is anyone talking to them? How did the preaching and music speak to them? Did they find the pastor understandable? Relatable? Did he talk over their heads? Did he make them want to come back and find out more about Jesus? Did the spirit move them during the preaching and the music? Did anyone say, “I’ll see you next week?” 

Taken together, these minutes decide a guest’s opinion of the day and if they will be back.

11 Ways to Engage Guests at Your Church

two man and woman standing on doorway

Recently, I attended a virtual conference with some of the team from my new church, Community Covenant Church, on church systems. They spent a great deal of time discussing how to engage people, engage guests, and help them take their first steps at a church.

And I was reminded of something important: Words matter. What you say, and when you say it, matters a great deal. What you say as a person, leader or church reveals your values.

When you stand on a stage and address those new to your church, what you say matters, it has always rubbed me the wrong way when I hear the word visitor at a church instead of guest. Now, you might wonder, is the difference really a big deal? I think it is. 

Here’s why: A visitor is someone you expect not to come back. A guest is someone you prepare for. So by calling them guests, we are seeking to communicate we are thinking about them, expecting them to come, and have thought through their experience from start to finish.

Here are some practical things to do for guests:

  • Have friendly faces outside who say, “hi.” This goes a long way. Telling someone, “We’re glad to see you,” communicates so much. 
  • Create a culture of “showing” not “pointing.” If a guest looks lost or wants to know where a bathroom is or the auditorium, don’t point and say, “It’s down there on the left.” Walk with them to where they need to go, show them.
  • Have signs. This is crucial. People don’t know where things are. I think a church should always have more signs than they have. This helps guests move through your church unnoticed if they choose to do so, allowing them to move at their own pace. You should have signs that tell people where to park, where the front door is (this isn’t always obvious at a church), where bathrooms are, where kids go, and where the auditorium is.
  • Make guest sign-in for kids fast and secure. When parents drop their kids off, they are dropping off their most precious possession. This is more nerve-wracking than most churches realize. It should be secure. Parents (or the adult responsible for the child) should have to fill something out and get a badge that enables only them to get their child (no tag, no pick-up.) Leaders in the kid’s area should have shirts, vests, badges, something that identifies them as workers. 
  • Call them guests. This is self-explanatory, but this communicates who you think they are and your preparedness for them.
  • Tell them why you do what you do. Where else do you stand and sing with a group of people songs you don’t know? Where else do you listen to a 30-60 minute message without moving? Communion? Prayer? Announcements? All these things can be foreign to people, so please explain what you are doing and why you are doing them. Tell them how long the service will be and stick to that. If you preach through books of the Bible, tell them why you do that. A simple line, “We’re going to sing songs to God that we believe to be true about him.” Or, “we love to preach through books of the Bible as we believe the Bible is true and authoritative for our lives.” Things like this also remind regulars why you do what you do.
  • Have clear next steps. If your service is step 1, what is step 2? What should they do? How do they get more involved? Make this obvious.
  • Let them identify themselves in their time. Let guests tell you who they are when they want. Please don’t give them a visitor badge or a nametag, and don’t make them stand up. Then, when they are ready, they’ll tell you they are there.
  • Speak to them, let them know you know they are there, and expected. For example, say things like, “You may be new” or, “You might be here today, and you don’t know why you are, or you may have been dragged here by a friend” or, “You might be here and aren’t sure you believe in Jesus.” This says, “I’ve thought about you; this message is for you. I’m going to speak to where you are.” This also tells your regulars it is safe to bring their friends here.
  • Give them something. People think churches want something from them, money, time, etc. At the end of the service, tell guests where they can get a gift for being with you as a thank you. My preference is not to make them give you a connection card for a gift that doesn’t feel like a gift. Just be generous to them. 
  • Invite them back. Tell everyone, “We’d love to see you next Sunday.” Invite them back. You do this with guests when they come over; you talk about getting together again.

How Pastors Miss What’s Happening in Their Church

Recently I was sitting with a group of pastors who all had the same reaction to what was going on in their churches.

Surprise.

Each pastor thought things were going relatively well before covid. They thought their church was healthy because they saw a number of people getting baptized, they met first-time guests each week and they had a full room.

Yet, the surprise came because as we have walked through covid it has revealed what is actually happening beneath the surface of our churches. It has revealed who we really are and how we are really doing.

What if you didn’t need a crisis to know what is happening in your church?

The other thing that makes this a challenge is that the longer you are at a church, the longer you are in leadership, the further you get from what is happening. And, people don’t like to give you bad news, so all you hear are good things.

As a leader you must make sure you have ways to find out how things are actually going in your church.

Here’s how:

1. Staff & volunteer turnover. The longer you lead, the more change you will see in your staff and volunteer base. This happens for all kinds of reasons: people move for a job, they transition to be closer to family, the role they were in is no longer their passion or they have outgrown it, or they haven’t kept up with the growth of the church. Not all turnover is bad.

But, all turnover is data you need to be aware of. If, in the last few years, you have had a high turnover rate in your staff, do you know why? If you do exit interviews (and you should), don’t dismiss the information you receive from them, even if you don’t like what you hear.

On the flip side of this, it can also be unhealthy if you have no new voices or leaders at the top levels of your organization. This doesn’t mean you need to promote people past their ability or fire anyone. But, the longer you are a leader the more comfortable you get with the leaders you have around you, and the less you want new voices in that circle.

Be aware of that temptation and make sure you have ways for new voices to speak into what is happening at a church.

2. Why do people stay and leave your church. This is connected to the first one. But do you know why people come to your church? Do you know what keeps them? Do you know why people are leaving your church? It isn’t always good or bad, but you need to know.

As much as possible when people leave your church, talk to them. Take them to coffee and see what you can learn from them. They may or may not want to talk with you, but it is worth trying to find out.

When someone new comes to your church and gets connected, find out what kept them. Ask them how they found you, why they came back a second time or a third time. Ask them what made them get engaged. This helps you to know what is working and not working in your church.

3. New life, groups, and baptisms. This is all about new life, about the next steps being taken.

If you haven’t seen any new groups getting started or new leaders being raised up, there is a problem with your groups, assimilation, or leadership development system. If you aren’t seeing people cross the line of faith or people getting baptized, then you need to step back and ask why.

It is easy to see a crowd in a room and think you are doing well. But you need to dig into the steps people are taking or not taking. 

Are people stepping up to volunteer and join teams? Or is it the same people who have always done it?

I know, as a leader, it is easier to pretend things are working just fine and it is hard to know after covid where people are. But your job as a leader is to know reality and define it for your church so that you can lead through it. 

How to Interview a Church

Over the last several months, I have been interviewing with churches as we sought our next step. I learned a lot about interviewing and the questions to ask in the process. It can be hard to ask questions. First of all, by the time you ask questions in the interview you are tired. You have answered theological and leadership questions, shared your story and what God is doing in your life and that can be emotionally draining.

So, you need to make sure you plan your questions. Don’t show up and throw out a random question or two. And don’t ask 0 questions, that is a sign you aren’t interested in the job. If you feel like you didn’t get to ask all your questions, set up a separate time for you to interview them. I spent hours asking questions of the team at Community Covenant Church in the process before making a decision.

Remember, you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you.

Below are my favorite questions that I asked each church. This was separate from my theological and philosophical questions and separate from finding the heart of a church.

1. If money wasn’t an issue and the Holy Spirit answered every prayer you have for your church, what does this church look like in 5 years? I love this question because it causes the team to sit back and dream. I heard so many great answers to this question over my months of interviewing. But what you are listening for, especially if you are interviewing for a lead pastor role, is where this group of people would like their church to go. Because as the leader, they are hoping you will take them there.

Each time I listened to this answer I asked myself, do I want to go there? Do I want to be a part of that church in the future? I didn’t hear anything heretical from any church I talked to, but I did hear answers that made me think, “that sounds nice, but I don’t want to go there.” This is an incredibly clarifying question.

2. What is one thing you hope I do or change? What is one thing you hope I don’t do or change? These two go together. As a leader you will bring about change. You are supposed to. But you need to be careful about what changes you bring. As a new leader, you have a great opportunity to bring fresh eyes to a ministry, to see things in a different way. You also have a period of time (a honeymoon it’s often called) to bring about new ideas.

But you need to do them carefully.

Hearing what people hoped I would change or do was really helpful. The second question helped me to see what is off-limits, what matters to a church.

3. What makes an employee successful at this church? I think you need to ask this question of a lot of different people during the interview process. Here’s why: I took a job once and in the interview process I got one answer from the leadership team of the church and I got a different answer from the admins in the church. Here’s why that matters: You need to know how people will evaluate you, but you also need to know how things actually get done. Sometimes they line up and sometimes they don’t.

4. Describe someone that would not fit the culture of your church. Again, you are trying to ask open-ended questions that paint a picture. If you ask, “Tell me about your culture” you will often hear what you want to hear or what they think they should say as a church. This question will cause the team to think back to employees who didn’t make it, people who upset the DNA and “the way things are done here.”

5. Describe how a difficult leadership situation was handled. You want to find out how conflict is handled in the church. Every church has conflicts. You will have conflicts at some point with a coworker, another elder, or a family in the church. How is that handled? How is sin handled? The way past situations were handled will give you a clue as to how future situations will be handled until you are able to influence the culture. It will also tell you how they handle sin and extend grace, and what compassion in a church looks like.

6. What is your ideal pastoral family? The reason I like to phrase it this way is it causes them to tell a story. If you ask, “What are your expectations for my wife and kids?” they might try to answer it in the way you want. Yes, they still might do that. But this way, you allow them to think about what is their ideal pastoral family?

7. Why do new people come back to your church? This question helps you to see a few things: do they have new people that come to their church? Do they get information from those guests? Do they track it and utilize it? This question also helps you to see what the community around the church might think of the church.

Three final tips:

  • Define the words they use. Churches are very good at throwing out buzzwords like relevant, collaborative, humble, generous, etc. So when they do, ask them to define those words. For example, when a church says it is generous, ask who experiences that generosity. Is it the staff? The community around them? The church itself?
  • Find the influencer. This is not really a question you can ask but something you must discover at any church you are interviewing: Who is the biggest influencer in the church? I made the mistake once in an interview process of assuming I knew the answer to this and it bit me once I took the job. The biggest influencer is not always the person who sits at the top, has been there the longest, or has the most visible power. But every organization, church, and team resembles someone. Figuring out who that person is will be crucial to your success in a new role.
  • Get financial and attendance data. I realize that coming out of covid this can be hard and not 100% accurate, but it is important. It tells a story, that’s what data does. I interviewed with one church that described themselves as growing and healthy but then they hit covid. However, as I dug into their data it showed they grew a lot in 2016 – 2018, plateaued and started to decline in 2019 and then hit covid. When I asked what happened in 2019, they pushed back and said that was an aberration. Maybe. But it is important to hear what the church thinks its data says, what story they think it tells.

Final thought: Know what answers you are looking for when you interview a church. They know what answers they want to hear from you. What will be a deal-breaker for you? What will cause a red flag to wave? My favorite answer, and one thing that stood out when I interviewed the team at Community Covenant, came when I asked them what would make me successful in 3 years. One of their elders said, “That your family would be glad you moved here.” When I asked that question of every other church, no one mentioned my family. That isn’t a deal breaker, but it was a big thing for me in this move. You need to know what those things are for you. 

Finding the Heart of a Church

When you interview at a church, you are putting your best foot forward. You look your best, sound your best, tell all your best stories and talk about your strengths as a person and a leader. The church is doing the same thing. They are talking about their potential, what God has done, what they hope God will do, and how amazing and friendly their church is.

And this is normal.

But the reality isn’t always that way. You and the church aren’t as amazing as you sound or appear. The stories you and they tell aren’t lies; you are all just glossing over some things.

One of the things I learned over the last season as I interviewed for Pastor roles in churches around the country is how to find the heart of a church. Before you take a job and move your family (possibly across the country) it is important that you make sure your desires and the desires of the church line up. Do you have the same passions? This is different from the theology and philosophy of ministry. This is getting at that sneaky thing called fit.

So, how do you determine fit? How do you make sure that you see through the feeling you get on a call to really make sure that your heart and the heart of the church line up?

Here are a few things that helped me:

1. Pay attention to the questions they ask. The questions a church asks will tell you so much. It will tell you what they think is important, what kind of pastor they are looking for and what kind of church they are. If a church asks a lot of questions about your family or marriage, they tell you about some of their expectations for you and your family. Or maybe they are talking about a wound they have because their last pastor had an issue in that area (more on that later). If they ask many theology questions that are big issues to them but aren’t to you, that is communicating something important. Pay attention to it.

2. Ask about their dreams and desires as a church. One of the most important questions I think you can ask a prospective church is, “If money wasn’t a barrier and the Holy Spirit answers every one of your prayers for your church, what does it look like in 5 years?” Here’s why this question is so important: This question tells you where they are hoping their church goes, what the promised land is for their church, and as the possible next lead pastor they are hoping you will take them there. I remember talking to several churches and asking this question and thinking, “That’s a great answer, but I don’t want to go there.”

3. Determine which values are real and which ones are aspirational (and try to determine if the aspirational ones are real or just ones they think they should have.) Every church has values. Some values are real and some are ones they hope are real (aspirational), and some are ones they think they should have because they are a church. Every church values discipleship and evangelism. But not every church practices those things. Ask questions around definitions. Ask for examples. When they use buzzwords like authenticity, community, family, relevant, ask what those words mean to them and how they get played out. Every church would say generosity is important but is that generosity directed at the staff, the church, the world around the church? Who feels that generosity? This doesn’t mean you take a church off your list because of values (although it might), but values will help you see the church’s culture and how they operate.

4. Pay attention to how they communicate. In an interview, how you communicate to a church tells the church something about you. Are you punctual? Do you get back to them in a good amount of time? The same is true for a church. I talked with one church and then didn’t hear from them for 4 weeks. When they finally got back to me about another interview, I pulled back. The lack of communication told me something about the church and how it operated. Remember, in an interview churches are putting their best foot forward, so if something feels off in an interview, there’s a good chance there is something off.

5. Listen to how they talk about their previous pastor. The way a church talks about their previous pastor is also how they might one day talk about you because you will be a previous pastor one day. But in how they talk about their previous pastor, they tell you what happened, what they are looking for, and if they have grieved the loss of that pastor and are ready to move forward. Many churches are not yet ready for a new pastor, which often leads to being an unintentional interim pastor.

Too often, potential pastors simply look at theology and philosophy of ministry. While those are very, very important, the heart of a church is how those play out, and lining up with a potential church in that way is just as important for a pastor and their family. 

Learning to Celebrate the Unexpected

God is Faithful signage with leaved background

There will be a staff meeting or a production meeting in many churches where we will go around the table and talked about what worked and didn’t work in a service or an event. We’ll learn from what we missed, the miscues, or things that we forgot. We’ll celebrate what worked, how God moved, the guests that came, and the taken steps.

This is all well and good and important.

But over this past year, I have been reminded of something we often miss: Celebrating the unexpected or the things that didn’t go as we planned.

In most churches, we do a good job of celebrating wins and learning from things that don’t work. But what about celebrating what God did in the things that don’t work or go as we planned. I think in covid, many of us had our plans turned upside down. Ideas we had didn’t play out the way we expected. But instead of just turning the page, what if we celebrated what God did in the unexpected? What if we looked back to see God’s hand? To see what he was up to when our plans were upended? I think it can help grow our faith and help us have some closure in some areas.

Here’s an example from my life and church.

In January of 2020, the church I planted merged with another church. In March of 2020, the world shut down because of covid, and our church went fully online. All the plans we had, all the things we had worked on and hoped to do, went out the window. Fast forward to today, that campus won’t reopen. On the one hand, we can look at that and say that it is a failure. It isn’t what we set out to do. The campuses we hoped to launch out of that campus aren’t happening on the timetable we set.

Yet, as I look back over this past year, I see God’s hand all over the place.

I’ve talked to countless pastors leading small to medium-sized portable churches like Revolution, and they are exhausted. Some of them have even left the ministry to take others jobs, which is heartbreaking. Some of those churches no longer exist. In many ways, that merge saved the staff and me at Revolution and kept us in ministry.

What God did was not only in me or at Revolution. The roles the staff of Revolution played at Pantano were perfect fits for us and needed, even though we didn’t know it at the time. We stepped into things that existed and didn’t exist at the time of the merge, and we went fully online as a church. We were able to experiment, learn and help move a church forward into a new hybrid church world.

If we look at a normal way of celebrating things, we can miss this.

So, pull your team together and pull out a journal and write down how you saw God move in the past year in unexpected ways.